Quote:

OceanFroggie
Hi Kieran, I would expect total transparency as this proposal seeks to go through it's phases. As to big wigs, there is no such thing, just dedicated volunteers who are servants, incurring significant personal costs in the line of their personal giving. IWAI is not a quango, there is no gravy, just service, and hopefully human friendships.

Noel (and Dave, Paul and other interested parties)

I suspect that Kieran means the current executive members (or those who are the current directors of the LTD that is IWAI) when he refers to big wigs. It is a fact that in time they will retire, move on etc. So the question is will they be leaving a large debt to future members for a questionable resource.

A similar situation has recently been reported regarding the donation of the late Charlie Haughy's yacht (Celtic Mist?) to the Irish Whale and Dolphin Charity. That charity commissioned a detailed report on the ongoing costs of accepting the yacht before agreeing to the bequest. I think it would make good sense for this to be done in this situation with the benefits to all of those expected to contribute to the costs (current and future members) fully outlined as well as detailed costs.

And I am surprised if the AGM attendees were asked to vote on the proposal without such information. Not sure how valid the vote results would be in that case.

Joe

HiKieran.
While I would at all times support informed debate, the elimination of group think and the open sharing of information across the organization. I think your view of the IWAI is to MY mind somewhat skewed
Ordinary members have NO liability within the IWAI, it rests solely with the 4 main executive officers as defined under the companies act. As an ordinary member you have no obligation to do any work or turn up to any function. This is not true of officers within the organization who do a lot of thankless work. You may also walk away from the organization at anytime.

However for your €40 or €55 you get to join an organization who represent users interests to the statutory bodies, provide country wide events(CIC's, Training days,rallies .bbq's, walks ect) all of which are fully indemnified with the associations insurance. Not to mention IWAI discounts and the best boating mag in the country. If you know of better value for €55 please tell me I'll be glad to know.

For my own part I think I'll wait until I have all the facts before I commit to a view.

AJ

PS I'm not having a go at you just giving my own opinion on your posts.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 13/06/2011 00:27 by Andy Jordan.

Andy, I'm pleased to see someone else recognises group-think, Alun

I remember, many years ago, the late (and great) Bertie Fisher telling me, that as Chairman of our Motor Club, and thus a Director, the final decision rested with me. There is frankly nothing so humbling, Alun

Quote:

Alun Goodall
Andy, I'm pleased to see someone else recognises group-think, Alun

So the fact that a few people on the list agree about something is now "group-think"?

And the "group-think" is just asking some meaningful questions in the face of lack of information about an important decision? Questions that have so far not been answered in any depth. Hmmmmmm.

Joe

Quote:

Alun Goodall
I remember, many years ago, the late (and great) Bertie Fisher telling me, that as Chairman of our Motor Club, and thus a Director, the final decision rested with me. There is frankly nothing so humbling, Alun

Alun

I think you make a very pertinent point. But the former chairman of your motor club is no longer responsible for the consequences of his decisions. It is those who are now members/director of that club. I agree with Kieran that the same problem may affect the IWAI. The current directors will one day move on and it will be successive generations of directors and members who will have to deal with the consequences of this decision. All I would like to see is that the potential cost/benefits have been properly identified and discussed so we can all make an informed decision.

Is that asking too much?

Joe

Hi Joe. Questions were answered in great depth at the AGM which was open to all members to attend. Folks can choose to attend or not, as is their personal preference. Those who didn't attend got an overview in IWN. It was folks choice to freely exercise.

OceanFroggie

Noel, Paul, Dave, Alun, Stephen, Andy, ..............

Thank you for your contributions to date on this matter.

While I hear the points that each of you have made, and respect them, nobody seems to be either willing or able to provide any financial details of this proposal at this stage.

Now should I be even more concerned????

Either nobody was told about the financial details at the AGM, which would be wrong if you were then asking people to vote for it, or else everybody has developed collective amnesia.

There could of course be another option which is worth considering, that is one where the members would not have been given all the financial details in case they vote down the proposal based on costs. I hope that this has not happened.

As a Dublin Branch member, I feel that I am just as entitled to have this information as any other member, or to put it as Noel did, Servant to IWAI when he described the Executive.

So just as soon as I click on the send button on this post, I will be in contact with my branch to request the financial details. Will I assume that they have this information?

Lets wait and see.

Regards

Kieran

Hi Kieran, yes your branch would be the correct channel as the AGM has passed. This public forum is not an official channel. Regards. Noel

OceanFroggie

Folks,

Below, please see the text of an e-mail which I have just sent to my branch.

Lets wait and see whta response I receive.

Regards

Kieran

Hello,

I am a member od Dublin Branch IWAI. I have read the article in Inland Waterways News regarding the proposal to develop Dunrovin. I have started a thread on the discussion list and asked for the financial details associated with this project. So far, nobody appears to be willing to provide the detail requested.

So Now, I wish to formally request it through my branch.

I would be obliged if you could furnish me with this information as soon as possible.

If you need to contact me by phone my number is 087 - 2679567.

I look forward to hearing from you in due course.

Regards

Kieran

Hi Noel,

Your latest post on this matter was anticipated by me earlier in this discussion (yesterday in fact - see my post).

Meanwhile, I have pre-empted your suggestion and gone ahead directly to my branch.

Watch this space.

Regards

Kieran

Keiran,

You cannot procede with something without taking steps. At each point in the process you take a decision to stop or go on depending on the facts. So with Dunrovin, the executive decides this is something that would be good for the association in principle; then they gather facts and discuss at council where there are, or should be representatives of all branches. With agreement there they proceeded to the next stage, which was to get a design and basic costs. That was done and again presented to council and to the AGM. We are now at the next stage of looking and detailed financing and planning permission etc as well as informing the total membership in the article in IW News.

Personnally I cannot see what else the executive could have done if anything is to progress and nothing is final until a contract is signed.

You have the right to object and may of your points are well made, we do need to know the detailed finances but you have to take one step at a time.

Paul is right though, you have such strong views you should attend meetings where they can be heard and not just sound off on this forum.

By the way, I am not on the executive but I am a branch officer and attend council.

If your branch members are not attending council and reporting back then they should be. If they are reporting back and you are not at the meetings then you won't hear anything.

Mike,

Thank you for your contribution - well put.

So does this mean that at this stage, nobody actually knows what the financial implications for IWAI associated with this development are? Thats interesting.

I appreciate your contribution, which seems to suggest that a final decision to proceed has not yet been taken. More a case that IWAI is still exploring the concept.

I may be wrong, and often am, but I still think that this may be a "Pet Project" of a numerically very small group who claim to be representing the wider membership through the overall branch structure.

I still say this development deserves needs a much wider support base than just those officers who attend meetings from time to time. 4000 members views being filtered to down to a very small few - morally, that can't be right.

What happens if another branch is given a similar gift in the future andwish to develope it. They will claim this current development is setting precedent and will want equal treatment.

I may have to edit my will!

Regards

Kieran

Keiran,

The executive is elected, just like parliament, to take decisions on the memberships behalf. If we, the members don't like what they are doing we can always vote them off.
To do that someone else has to be willing to stand and we, the members have to attend the AGM and do the voting.

Mike

As a more Junior (in physical years anyhow) member of the IWAI, I enjoyed the presentation made by Dave McC at the IWAI AGM (Which I had to cancel other plans to attend, as I felt it's every members obligation to attend, for the greater good of the association as a whole)

I am not an Athlone member, but I feel that this project would be a great benefit to the IWAI as a whole; a place to call 'home'. Sure, it's not on my door-step, but as long as I know that I would be welcomed at the facility if passing by, then that's good enough for me.

Also, for what it's worth, I would be one of those members who would happily take 1 day per month to visit the facility with a lawn-mower and other cleaning bits in the boot of the car to help out with the volunteer maintenance of the facility. Infact, this is how communities grow.... stick them all together and get some work done, conversations start and then at the end of the day, bring out the BBQ!

Of course ,this whole project is subject to the rigors of planning. Any dissenters will get an opportunity to voice their opposition then. That is democracy.

PJ

PJ,

I assume that you are referring to the whole planning permission thing which any citizen can participate in. Whereas I am only really discussing the general way which IWAI are doing their business in relation to this matter.

If if goes to planning stage & receives permission, then thats is just one part of a whole process resolved.

Then there is the discussion within IWAI as to the merits of the proposal and the capital costs associated with realising that development, not mention the running costs thereafter.

People - These costs will need to come from somewhere. That somewhere is YOU the members of IWAI by way of levies or increased subs. Remember, Daves article in IWN says it all "Branches will be EXPECTED to contribute".

Niall,

While your offer to attend on site ocassionally and mow the grass and do other jobs is very laudable, are you prepared to put your hand into your own pocket to make this dream a reality?

Here are the sums:

€350,000.00 divided by 4000 members would be €87.50 per member.

Now if every member was to contribute - Job Done. But you know they won't. Even all those who are generally in favour of the project won't dig into their own pockets. Some will. That will still leave a significant amount to be made up - by whom I hear members ask!

Well, dear members, the answer is ..............................YOU! One way or another.

So stand up now and have your say or simply be prepared to pay up later.

For the record, if a "Special Fund" were to be set up for this development, and if it proved to be popular with the members who would express this desire by way of lodging funds to the special fund account, I just might consider also parting with my €87.50.

It doesn't matter how well intentioned people were/are, cos at the end of the day it will all come down to money. If loans are secured and can't be repaid, then the lending institution will get possession of it anyway and we will no longer have a Dunrovin of any shape or form.

Now there's something to think about about.

Kieran

I think this is a great idea. It is a shame that an organisation as large and active as this does not have a base or focal point.

I for one am looking forward to visiting the finished project, viewing the archives and learning more about the history of the organisation and the people who made it what it is today. This is a great opportunity to promote the organisation, share our ethos and passion for the waterways and provide a central place where the next generation can learn about and appreciate the efforts, hard work and campaignes of the previous generation in protecting our cruising grounds.

The loacation couldn't be any more central or accessible to all branches.

Like any project there is a cost but in my opinion the benefits will far outweigh the costs.

Quote:

Niall
Also, for what it's worth, I would be one of those members who would happily take 1 day per month to visit the facility with a lawn-mower and other cleaning bits in the boot of the car to help out with the volunteer maintenance of the facility. Infact, this is how communities grow.... stick them all together and get some work done, conversations start and then at the end of the day, bring out the BBQ!

Niall, I admire your spirit, if we all get together we can help make this a reality and build something to be enjoyed, now and far into the future.

Wasn't there some talk of renting this property as a holiday home or am I
imagining that.

Anyway why does it have to be perceived as a drain on resources. Could it
not equally become an asset ?

Will it provide an income stream ?

What is the forseen usage ?

So much negativity of late on this forum. People too willing to project the
worst on to others actions. All this talk about secret agendas etc. So much
balderdash.


Fred Smith

On 13 June 2011 13:59, IWAI forum Dominic Higgins wrote:

> Posted at: [www.iwai.ie]
> Dominic Higgins wrote:
>
> I think this is a great idea. It is a shame that an organisation as large
> and active as this does not have a base or focal point.
>
> I for one am looking forward to visiting the finished project, viewing the
> archives and learning more about the history of the organisation and the
> people who made it what it is today. This is a great opportunity to promote
> the organisation, share our ethos and passion for the waterways and provide
> a central place where the next generation can learn about and appreciate the
> efforts, hard work and campaignes of the previous generation in protecting
> our cruising grounds.
>
> The loacation couldn't be any more central or accessible to all branches.
>
> Like any project there is a cost but in my opinion the benefits will far
> outweigh the costs.
>
> Also, for what it's worth, I would be one of those members who would
> happily take 1 day per month to visit the facility with a lawn-mower and
> other cleaning bits in the boot of the car to help out with the volunteer
> maintenance of the facility. Infact, this is how communities grow.... stick
> them all together and get some work done, conversations start and then at
> the end of the day, bring out the BBQ!
>
> Niall, I admire your spirit, if we all get together we can help make this a
> reality and build something to be enjoyed, now and far into the future.
>

Reply Quote

Hi Fred,

Thank you for your contribution to this discussion.

I read your contribution with interest.

You said:
Wasn't there some talk of renting this property as a holiday home or am I
imagining that.

I don't actually know what you might have heard. Are you an IWAI member? If so which branch?

You also said:
Anyway why does it have to be perceived as a drain on resources. Could it
not equally become an asset ?

I suppose in so far as it is a property it would be deemed an asset!

You then said:
Will it provide an income stream ? Have you any ideas in mind? If so - do tell.

Next you said:
What is the forseen usage ? Now this would probably be the most important factor in deciding what is likely to happen?

As for the following statement by you:
So much negativity of late on this forum. People too willing to project the
worst on to others actions. All this talk about secret agendas etc. So much
balderdash.

I assume that those words are aimed in the general direction of me and those of us who "Dare" to ask questions about what some in IWAI have planned.

I think thats a pity. It only reinforces what some other contributors have said in the past about this forum. The big mouths and the bullies will always try to quieten & frighten the rest of us.

I say that this is not good for the image of IWAI.

MIGHT IS RIGHT could well be the perceived new motto for IWAI.

So come on you bullies - lets be having ya!
Regards

Kieran