Hi all.
I went out to Breakaway and did some pre-season maintenance - including replacing the fuel filter which I do every year round this time.

For the first time the used filter was noticeably gunged up - a yellow-ish jelly-like substance.

See [jkcray.maths.ul.ie]

The diesel in the filter (which I will dispose of) is very milky, see photos 2 & 3 in particular.

I've seen it suggested that the small amount of bio-diesel included in road diesel is the cause.

For what it is worth the diesel in the tank had been treated with a diesel additive.

I pumped out the tank 2 weeks ago and cleaned it with isopropyl alcohol, refilled and added diesel additive (the green stuff).

Is this gunge a common problem? I've never seen it before.

Should I start using tractor/marked diesel if this is only a problem with road diesel?

Thanks,

John
Yacht Breakaway

Hi all.
Any comments on this?

Thanks,
John
Yacht Breacaway

Could the alcohol have had an effect John...??

MW&W)F

Quote:

Mick Farrell
Could the alcohol have had an effect John...??
MW&W)F

Hi Mick.

No, I don't think so as I haven't run the engine since I cleaned tank out with isopropanol and refueled.

So the fuel (and gunge) in the old filter is what was there before I cleaned the tank...

I are reasonably certain that the gunge is bio-diesel related.

If I'm right then anyone that uses road diesel will see the same gunge when they change fuel filter..

Maybe most won't be changing filters for a while yet, I'm hoping to relaunch by February hence early filter change..

John

Yacht Breakaway

John, You have my sympathy. I can't offer you anything else.Did you google the problem?

Pj

Have a read of this John [www.plymyachtclub.org.uk] may help.

Aj

I think this is the article mentioned
[www.sailingtoday.co.uk]

AJ

John I have in the past used a product in my vans called Dee-Zol made by Bell inc and found it to be an excellent product. They do a range of products including a Marine version here's the site address [www.bellperformance.com]
I will try to locate a supplier on this side if the pond.

AJ

Thanks Andy, PJ, Mick et al.

I've no reason to think there's any damage to engine - tank is now shiny & clean with clean diesel (with additive) and I've put in a new fuel filter & bled the system..

What more can a simple sailor do?

I'll sample the fuel from the filter now & again once boat is lifted in..

John

Diesel Auxiliary Yacht Breakaway

[quote John.Kinsella

What more can a simple sailor do?

John

Diesel Auxiliary Yacht Breakaway[/quote]

The bledin' obvious perhaps...use the force...John

M(W&W)F

Riiight... Steps slowly away....

I do have a Cunning Plan actually.

I have an Inland Froggy lined up.

It (he) will hop through the fuel lines at a word of command and if he hops out smelling of diesel and still Green all is well.

If he slithers out covered in Yellow Gunge all is not well for me - and probably not at all well for him either.

Ribbip...

Mick, was that what you were getting at?)

John
Diesel Auxiliary Yacht Breakaway

Merely thinking out loud John. Go even greener...use the sail...!!
You could then replace the fuel tank with a beer keg, and convert the engine space to a wine cellar. (See 68 and 76 M, respectively, for advice). Donal and Giles are working on a solar option to allow you to run the SIG's new charts on 60" plasma screens, with surround sound. I believe there will be verbal instructions for the visaully impaired, voiced be the Oul Gits ("Mind that rock, ya gobshite").

M(W&W)F

Quote:

Mick Farrell
Merely thinking out loud John. Go even greener...use the sail...!!
You could then replace the fuel tank with a beer keg, and convert the engine space to a wine cellar. (See 68 and 76 M, respectively, for advice). Donal and Giles are working on a solar option to allow you to run the SIG's new charts on 60" plasma screens, with surround sound. I believe there will be verbal instructions for the visaully impaired, voiced be the Oul Gits ("Mind that rock, ya gobshite").

M(W&W)F

There's a lot to be said for ditching d'oul diesel Mick.
I know a multihull sailor that has gone for electric power as backup to sail.

Certainly I've had to put in much more work getting and keeping the 35 year old Volvo Penta in good nick than on the sail systems.

Maybe once the next property boom kicks in....

John
Diesel (for the foreseeable future) Auxiliary Yacht Breakaway



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2012 18:33 by John.Kinsella1.

Quote:

John.Kinsella1
I know a multihull sailor that has gone for electric power as backup to sail.
John
Diesel (for the foreseeable future) Auxiliary Yacht Breakaway

Multihull, Sail AND Electric Must be a real ODDBALL

Dermot
Cheetah 304.

Hi John, Sounds Like Diesel Bug.
(The air space above the fuel in tanks contains water vapour. The walls of the tanks are cool and the water vapour condenses on these surfaces. This water subsequently accumulates and sinks to the bottom of the tank creating an ideal environment for the growth of the most common of fungi "Cladisporium resinae".
Once in a fuel supply this contamination can exist virtually undetected and wait for the right conditions for growth. They can double their numbers every 20 minutes and one single spore can produce over 260,000 cloned descendants in six hours. Each spore lives for about 48 hours and as older fungi die their bodies accumulate, forming a slime that ultimately floats upwards into the fuel, a bit like soft candy floss- so it doesn't take long for the bugs to dominate the entire fuel system.)
[www.howcleanisyouroil.com]
I have used Marine 16 and it worked great for me. Bought online from
[www.force4.co.uk]

This has all been covered before. The problem stems from European Union rules banning sulprhur levels in all diesel fuel, either road or agri. Rule came in force 01/01/11. The basic rules to stay reliable are (1) do not leave boat standing with a tankful of unused fuel. This new stuff won't keep. (2) Drain the tank base at least three times per year. (3) If you were changing fuel filters annually as most do, you now need to change them four times per season. (4) Ensure the tank cap O ring is intact and keep it lubticated with vaseline. (5) Ensure that the vendor supplying the fuel is passing it through the proper filtration system that is recommended by all major fuel suppliers.(Note; few marinas that I'm aware of have the proper filtration). Boaters using road fuel need to be doubly aware of the types of washed product that abound, and I would be loath to risk road diesel in any boat, where a simple breakdown at an inopertune moment can spell disaster.

Thanks Robert.
I've had the boat six years and changed the filter every spring.
I've never had this problem before - which is why I suspect biodiesel (and maybe lower sulphur levels in fuel) are the cause.

The advice not to leave the boat standing with a tank full of unused fuel is difficult to keep to when boat is on hard standing for the winter.
We are also advised to fill tanks to the brim before laying up for winter.

Draining the tank base (as I did a month ago) from above is a major pita - not all tanks have taps at the base.

I'll tap the base of the fine fuel filter regularly and see what happens.

Thanks
John
Yacht Breakaway

Hi John,

It was also always my understanding that diesel tanks should be left as full as possible over the winter to minimise condensation within the tanks. How does one reconcile this advice with not leaving fuel for extended periods of time?

My tank also has no drain tap at the base and is not terribly accessible at the top either! Not sure how I would even go about draining the fuel tank if I had to, without using a high-powered pump to suck it back up through the fuel filler inlet!! I have become more rigorous about always adding an additive to the fuel every time I put any in.

Is there, I wonder, any difference between the marked diesel sold at marinas and that available at some garage forecourts?

Rich
COOL BLUE

Hi Rich.
Like you I was wondering too whether I should have bought marked diesel in Nenagh instead of road diesel.

It's annoying that this potential problem was imposed on boat owners without as far as I know any prior advice as to how we could mitigate the problem.
I change the fuel filter every spring - I have friends that never do.

I would be worried that the relaxed attitudes that sailors in particular tend to have to engine maintenance may lead to problems this season.

Suggestions that we should change the fuel filter 2-3 times per year are unlikely to be taken up by inland sailors that probably dont use 20l per year.

I hope people check (or ask their mechanic to check) fuel filters when recomissioning this Spring.

All the best,
John

PS I used a "drill pump" - basically an impeller in a housing with an input & output spigot to pump out my tank before cleaning.
(I cleaned it out using cheapo Lidl nappies and isopropyl alcohol.)

The drill pump has a shaft that fits into a standard 220V hand drill.
You just fit an input and output pipe.

I pumped out my 40l tank in less than 5 mins.

A very clever idea which I only heard of recently.
The pump housing costs €20-30 and you probably have the hand drill already.

Quote:

Richard Whitla
Hi John,
It was also always my understanding that diesel tanks should be left as full as possible over the winter to minimise condensation within the tanks. How does one reconcile this advice with not leaving fuel for extended periods of time?

My tank also has no drain tap at the base and is not terribly accessible at the top either! Not sure how I would even go about draining the fuel tank if I had to, without using a high-powered pump to suck it back up through the fuel filler inlet!! I have become more rigorous about always adding an additive to the fuel every time I put any in.

Is there, I wonder, any difference between the marked diesel sold at marinas and that available at some garage forecourts?

Rich
COOL BLUE

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/01/2012 20:26 by John.Kinsella1.

These are links to two companies in the UK offering mobile services to clean tanks / "polish" diesel. Maybe someone will offer a similar service here.
www.marinecruises.co.uk
www.guds.co.uk